Clarification – Using or "Demanding" More Shining Time

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Jerry Moll
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Clarification – Using or "Demanding" More Shining Time

Postby Jerry Moll » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:33 pm

This question has been brought up many times over the years, “How long can a cast member keep the cast at a tree”? The simple answer is, only until the tree has been scored in accordance with rule #9.H. Scoring The Tree.

The point in time which the tree is considered “scored” is sometimes very black and white and other times not as cut and dried. Handlers MUST have and give a legitimate reason to continue shining. If handlers want to continue shining in order to “burn up” hunting time or to keep other handlers “leash locked” these are NOT considered to be legitimate reasons.

Here are some examples of trees that handlers may not continue to shine:
•When a raccoon has been seen and scored plus by the majority of the cast in an Open Event or by a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules.
•When a tree has been scored minus (empty) by the majority of the cast in an Open Event or by a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules. In this case there is no place for a raccoon to be hiding.
•When off game has been seen and scored minus by the majority of the cast in an open event or a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules. In this case there is no place for a raccoon to be hiding.
•If handlers with dogs at the tree are satisfied with the scoring and ready to recast, but another handler wants to continue shining with nothing to loose or gain by finding a raccoon or off game.

Here are some examples of trees that handlers may continue to shine:
•When a tree has not yet been scored by the majority of the cast in an Open Event or by a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules.
•When a tree is about to be scored circle by the majority of the cast in an Open Event or by a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules and there remains possible places for a raccoon to be hiding.
•When off game has been seen and about to be scored minus by the majority of the cast in an open event or a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules and there remains possible places for a raccoon to be hiding.

9.H. Scoring The Tree -
After the judge has determined which dog(s) are showing tree and which dog(s), if any, are off tree, dog(s) should be leashed and the tree scored. Any dog coming in and showing interest in tree while scoring will be leashed. Shining time will be announced and started when the judge is in position to score the tree. The handler with the most to gain on a tree should be allowed to search the tree for the first two minutes alone at their option and then all handlers may search. Eight (8) minutes of hunting time may be used to search a tree up until the tree has been scored. No game may be scored prior to the judge starting the eight minutes or after the eight minute shining period has expired. Handlers may blow squallers, pull vines, etc during the entire shining period. No time-out may be called to search a tree, leading away from a tree, or between split trees. All dogs leashed at the tree must remain leashed until they can be released toward other trailing dog(s) or a fresh re-casting area if no dog(s) are on trail.

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Re: Clarification – Using or "Demanding" More Shining Time

Postby Dave Freeman Jr » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:35 am

So the way that reads you could demand more time if a coon was found by 2 members and was needed to prove to the other 2. I have seen a tree circled in this very situation that the other clearly saw at about the 815 mark how should it have been scored ?

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Re: Clarification – Using or "Demanding" More Shining Time

Postby Andy Harper » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:59 am

After 8 minutes it doesn’t matter what you see by the rules. What it’s talking about is in scoring trees that are scorable before the 8 minutes is up. It would be hard to cut scoring time short on most circle trees unless the handler says he’s satisfied but on slick trees it usually doesn’t take 8 minutes to determine they’re slick. Score it and cut em.

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Re: Clarification – Using or "Demanding" More Shining Time

Postby Billy Carter » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:50 pm

Jerry, I can understand this answer. It’s this post you put on previously that confused me.

You stated we must give or state a legitimate reason to keep shining. If I find a coon at 730 and you walk over there at 805 I got a pretty legitimate reason to keep shining.

I always stopped at 8 and never went beyond. All these scenarios confused my simple mind.

Thanks for clarifying

Jerry Moll wrote:This question has been brought up many times over the years, “How long can a cast member keep the cast at a tree”? The simple answer is, only until the tree has been scored in accordance with rule #9.H. Scoring The Tree.

The point in time which the tree is considered “scored” is sometimes very black and white and other times not as cut and dried. Handlers MUST have and give a legitimate reason to continue shining. If handlers want to continue shining in order to “burn up” hunting time or to keep other handlers “leash locked” these are NOT considered to be legitimate reasons.

Here are some examples of trees that handlers may not continue to shine:
•When a raccoon has been seen and scored plus by the majority of the cast in an Open Event or by a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules.
•When a tree has been scored minus (empty) by the majority of the cast in an Open Event or by a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules. In this case there is no place for a raccoon to be hiding.
•When off game has been seen and scored minus by the majority of the cast in an open event or a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules. In this case there is no place for a raccoon to be hiding.
•If handlers with dogs at the tree are satisfied with the scoring and ready to recast, but another handler wants to continue shining with nothing to loose or gain by finding a raccoon or off game.

Here are some examples of trees that handlers may continue to shine:
•When a tree has not yet been scored by the majority of the cast in an Open Event or by a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules.
•When a tree is about to be scored circle by the majority of the cast in an Open Event or by a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules and there remains possible places for a raccoon to be hiding.
•When off game has been seen and about to be scored minus by the majority of the cast in an open event or a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules and there remains possible places for a raccoon to be hiding.

9.H. Scoring The Tree -
After the judge has determined which dog(s) are showing tree and which dog(s), if any, are off tree, dog(s) should be leashed and the tree scored. Any dog coming in and showing interest in tree while scoring will be leashed. Shining time will be announced and started when the judge is in position to score the tree. The handler with the most to gain on a tree should be allowed to search the tree for the first two minutes alone at their option and then all handlers may search. Eight (8) minutes of hunting time may be used to search a tree up until the tree has been scored. No game may be scored prior to the judge starting the eight minutes or after the eight minute shining period has expired. Handlers may blow squallers, pull vines, etc during the entire shining period. No time-out may be called to search a tree, leading away from a tree, or between split trees. All dogs leashed at the tree must remain leashed until they can be released toward other trailing dog(s) or a fresh re-casting area if no dog(s) are on trail.
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Billy Carter
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Re: Clarification – Using or "Demanding" More Shining Time

Postby Billy Carter » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:01 pm

I understood that 8 meant 8. Done it 25 years that way.
But the below statement is what confused my simple mind.

“ Handlers must give a legitimate reason to continue shining” finding a coon at 730 and fellows stumbling around to get there until 805 is legitimate.

I also understand that this example is in reference to in a way delay of cast to help yourself out.

I just wanted it clarified in black and white because in my experiences I have seen where people get on here and halfway read stuff and try to throw twist in like the example I used.

You answered the question straight to the point and that’s what we need.

Jerry Moll wrote:This question has been brought up many times over the years, “How long can a cast member keep the cast at a tree”? The simple answer is, only until the tree has been scored in accordance with rule #9.H. Scoring The Tree.

The point in time which the tree is considered “scored” is sometimes very black and white and other times not as cut and dried. Handlers MUST have and give a legitimate reason to continue shining. If handlers want to continue shining in order to “burn up” hunting time or to keep other handlers “leash locked” these are NOT considered to be legitimate reasons.

Here are some examples of trees that handlers may not continue to shine:
•When a raccoon has been seen and scored plus by the majority of the cast in an Open Event or by a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules.
•When a tree has been scored minus (empty) by the majority of the cast in an Open Event or by a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules. In this case there is no place for a raccoon to be hiding.
•When off game has been seen and scored minus by the majority of the cast in an open event or a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules. In this case there is no place for a raccoon to be hiding.
•If handlers with dogs at the tree are satisfied with the scoring and ready to recast, but another handler wants to continue shining with nothing to loose or gain by finding a raccoon or off game.

Here are some examples of trees that handlers may continue to shine:
•When a tree has not yet been scored by the majority of the cast in an Open Event or by a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules.
•When a tree is about to be scored circle by the majority of the cast in an Open Event or by a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules and there remains possible places for a raccoon to be hiding.
•When off game has been seen and about to be scored minus by the majority of the cast in an open event or a Non-Hunting judge under Pro Rules and there remains possible places for a raccoon to be hiding.

9.H. Scoring The Tree -
After the judge has determined which dog(s) are showing tree and which dog(s), if any, are off tree, dog(s) should be leashed and the tree scored. Any dog coming in and showing interest in tree while scoring will be leashed. Shining time will be announced and started when the judge is in position to score the tree. The handler with the most to gain on a tree should be allowed to search the tree for the first two minutes alone at their option and then all handlers may search. Eight (8) minutes of hunting time may be used to search a tree up until the tree has been scored. No game may be scored prior to the judge starting the eight minutes or after the eight minute shining period has expired. Handlers may blow squallers, pull vines, etc during the entire shining period. No time-out may be called to search a tree, leading away from a tree, or between split trees. All dogs leashed at the tree must remain leashed until they can be released toward other trailing dog(s) or a fresh re-casting area if no dog(s) are on trail.
Bays Fork "Breeding for Superiority"

Jerry Moll
Director - Field Operations
Posts: 4505
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:11 pm
PKC Name: Jerry Moll
City, State: Batesville, IN
PKC Member Since: 02 Feb 1989
Lifetime Handler Earnings: $29,791
Cell #: 812-212-1619
Contact:

Re: Clarification – Using or "Demanding" More Shining Time

Postby Jerry Moll » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:08 pm

Billy Carter wrote:Jerry, I can understand this answer. It’s this post you put on previously that confused me.

You stated we must give or state a legitimate reason to keep shining. If I find a coon at 730 and you walk over there at 805 I got a pretty legitimate reason to keep shining. I always stopped at 8 and never went beyond. All these scenarios confused my simple mind. Thanks for clarifying

Billy, This thread is about "Using or Demanding More Shining Time" It clarifies that you cannot continue to shine after the tree has been scored by the majority of the cast or non-hunting judge, just to burn up hunting time.

Again, the underlined portion of rule #9.H. below answers your question, that you cannot score anything at 8.01.
No game may be scored prior to the judge starting the eight minutes or after the eight minute shining period has expired.
Please prepare yourself and your hound. Hunt the dog, read the Blue Book, and your Good Book!
[email protected] @ 812.212.1619


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